Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice

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12 Dec, 2011 Andrey
12 Dec, 2011 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
There is a map - Normal Map - here I have recently sharply wondered how textures are made under these cards? After Normal Map is mainly used for the Bump mapping, but color it does not like to bump (black-and-white raster) and lilac - bluish. For example, when I apply a texture brick with applied Bump texture of the same bricks to say, boxing and render in the aisle (Normal Map) something like it gives me the result, but somehow weak. That is, after the application of the rendered just textures in Normal Map card slot after rendering bump like becomes more beautiful and pronounced, but still weak - maybe I'm doing something wrong or is there any other ways to get Normal Map textures under those that are used for the channel Diffuse to emphasize them. The question is originated for one simple reason - there are moments in the work, where it is easier in Photoshop to create some detailed texture and create for her Normal Map texture than all modeled directly in Max: |


12 Dec, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
12 Dec, 2011 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice

Hello!

In general, the task of normal mapping is to unload the model. Initially, normal mapping is like the gaming industry. More precisely, it is used in interactive realtime 3d engines, which are very critical for the number of polygons in models.

In short, first a complex HIGH-Poly model is modeled with all the small details, without any savings on the polygons. Then, from this model, or on top of it, a LOW-Poly model with a minimum number of polygons is created. After that, these models are combined, and the normals of the high-poly model are projected onto a low-poly model, using the baking function in the texture.

So get a normal map. In fact, Normal Map is a texture, where the colors indicate the directions of normal polygons. Further, it is superimposed on the same low-poly model and, in rendering, it looks detailed. Unlike the real high-resolution model, on a low-polygonal model with a normal map, small parts are made not by polygons, but simply by shading. Simply put, the light incident on the model is corrected by this card.
This allows you to unload the game scene and increase the performance of the game engine. Now back to your situation. To get the Normal Bump (it's the Normal Map) of the brickwork, you need to model the brick wall with geometry, making each brick in volume and taking into account the peculiarities of this particular map. Then bake the normal map on the plane. And after that, render. Then you will get a brick-like look about the same as the one from which you rendered the texture.
And now the main question. What for? Why do you need to make a high-poly model, render a normal map from it, and then superimpose it on a low-poly model. What is the point? It's easier to make all the geometry, every brick.

The only exception is the tailless texture, when you, after making 5 bricks, and having obtained the corresponding normal map, apply it to the whole wall and get a thousand bricks.

Now you are trying to create a Normal Map in Photoshop, which, in general, is impossible. Unless, if you in mind will keep correspondence RGB channels with properties of normals😁

The option to bookmark the Diffuse card in the slot normal bump - we will not discuss. I think you already guessed why ...

Concerning the creation of the Normal Map from Diffuse, that is, different automatic texture generators. For example, they know how to make a Bump, Displace and the same Normal Map based on the Diffuse texture. But they do it so clumsily, how clumsy it can make an automaton without understanding the essence of the object depicted in Diffuse.

So they should not be discussed either.

As a summary, for a photorealistic static rendering (not animation and not interactive), the normal bump is extremely useful. Therefore, I advise you not to bother with the normal bump on statics😉



12 Dec, 2011 Andrey
14 Dec, 2011 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Hello Anton. Thank you for a clarification of the process 🙂 It turns out that after all in the end to get the Normal Map in the Bump slot for my card in the slot Diffuse I smodelit desired surface (Sorry - I think there are some faster and more convenient process for obtaining these cards - On the one hand you are right, these chips often used in game development, just like in the process have to be periodically vstrechatsya very overweight interior design orders in terms of geometry, then have to look for some alternative solutions to those or other problems. I saw for example with using the Normal Bump-and the game Deus Ex 3 received the most beautiful looking textures - just wanted to learn to do something similar Have to then sits down at the study of Z-brush😁


12 Dec, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
14 Dec, 2011 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice

No, zibrash you have nothing fundamentally new, Normal bump does not provide in the plan. Better to just do everything in max just geometry. And where it is very difficult, that there is to think about the proxy or of the normal bump to unload scene from landfills. At least in the viewport. Incidentally Normal bump, though, and is called a bump, but for good effect, for the volume, as it was mentioned in the post above and the links it should be used not as a Bump and Displacement. A displesment - this generation of geometry that gently rolls back in the direction of the proxy (the Proxy) , a better option than fuss with Normal Map.



14 Jul, 2012 Konstantin
14 Jul, 2012 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Hey, I read about normal bum and yet it would be useful to me, but to create it in 3d max do not know how? That link above does not rabotet and lessons good, I did not find, or rather found but there is always baked diffusion want to do normal wham here such hightpoly prosyni And you superimpose it on a regular ChamferBox, Oven settings such Though I could not understand them, though, and that is baked in the output file, but why is all black, and where to put it to the normal bump bake? : |


15 Jul, 2012 Usco
15 Jul, 2012 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice

14 Jul, 2012 Konstantin
16 Jul, 2012 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice

Thanks Usco! Pts helped, although I would like to know if it's right to do normal bump, because I did a little differently, and there were some questions:
1) I create two chamferboxes: one highly polygonal, the other low polygonal:



2) squeezed out on a high polygonal pattern of half-rags

3) combined a high-poly part and a low-poly

4) clicked render to texrure (button 0) selected a low polygon chamferbox and pressed pick selected a high-polygonal base as a texture for roasting, clicked the "projection mapping"


Here sdes there is a question, that designates a mapping mappingininats tab, there can be who knows, tell please why except chanel 1 if to choose opposite object, the texture subsequently badly to lay down, and that means sub-object and whether it is connected as with anti-aliasing groups ? If anyone knows =)
5) increased the area of ​​the framing grid for baking so that all high-poly model was stacked in the normal bump map on a low polygon in the projection settings -> cage

6) in the settings of the output rollout I click add I select vraynormalsMap, I tried to select VrayBumpNormalsMap why it does not work, by the way, does not know who the real why? So many in the tutorials choose vraycomplitemap, also do not know what kind of an animal it is?

7) I specify where and under what name our normal bump map will be stored, click on the button next to file name and tipe

8) the remaining settings at the bottom render to textue:

9) I press Unwrap Only, although it is possible to press render at once, but then the scan will be automatic, although I pressed Unwrap Only and did not change the scan.

10) I click Render

11) I apply the vraymtl material to our chambersbox by inserting into the dump a map of our normal bump

12) final rendering



That's all =)
If anyone knows if I'm doing the right thing, maybe something can be done better? Or are you doing another?



15 Jul, 2012 Usco
16 Jul, 2012 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
It is necessary to nizk.pol.modeli still do primitive projections, where they do you have to vysokopoligon.mod., Do not just increase the box. Then it will be much more realistic, and the projection is a "physical" .Printsip as follows: EVERYTHING meaningful projections obtyanut nizkopoligonalnymi.V your example you can either just as a rectangle at the top (think it's a bit ugly), or as a side 8-gon will be better.


14 Jul, 2012 Konstantin
16 Jul, 2012 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
It is clear, thank you! and smoothing groups should all be the same?


15 Jul, 2012 Usco
16 Jul, 2012 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Depending on the model and situations. If you make a model with rounded corners, or a hemisphere (from a very small low poly count of polygons), the ones to look "kruglogladkoy", then naturally all of these polygons have to be one group. And if you have a model, not all is smooth (eg drum), the need for different groups of the sidewall (1 group) and the top-bottom (2gruppa).


5 Mar, 2013 Inferno
5 Mar, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Good day friends! I would like to discuss the topic of normal maps. Namely, how to use them? And just what is their advantage over displaesment and vray displaesment mode? I look forward to feedback and hope to get an interesting discussion! 👌


6 Mar, 2013 3dSTart
6 Mar, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Hey. Also in his time I wondered stumbled upon a series of useful lessons http://forum.cgtalk.by/cmps_index.php?page=3933 I think there is sufficient given that this is an exhaustive answer to what they eat and how to use)


12 Dec, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
7 Mar, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice

If you try to understand the normal maps, namely that it is only a method of recording information about the items made projection High-Poly version of 3d models for its Low-Poly option, the desire to talk about the creation of a "normal" card in Photoshop you should fall . At least if you are guided by common sense. Of course, realizing color coding normal maps can be in any 2D editor feykovye paint on parts, but it's really very simple forms. For example, as a bulge downlight Example 3dSTart.



5 Mar, 2013 Inferno
8 Mar, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Yes friends! Now it is clear. I just did not initially correctly represented the essence of the destination maps of normals. I knocked those Tolu be that normal maps are used as a relief-type textures (bump map, displaesment and vray displaesment mode). And in fact, in the words of Anton (RenderStuff) "it's just a method of recording information on the details of High-Poly made variant projection 3d models for its Low-Poly option." I like modeler mainly itererov it until tender. But anyway thank you all for your feedback! PS RenderStuff cool site! 👍


6 Mar, 2013 3dSTart
10 Mar, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
As to the reference, it is clear that it is not the ultimate truth, but enough to grasp the essence of the filtering can be, well, at least I did something for myself learned. And the fact that you guys are PROS, Duc no doubt. It has long been want to say thank you for your site. And separate respect for a series of articles on vireyu, because generally after they appeared more clear understanding of what is happening😁 Information of course a lot and does not fit all at once so as it should, but that fits, and this is important 👍


7 Jul, 2013 Yevgeniy R
7 Jul, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Hello! I had a problem that I can not solve (there are geometry which has been made in Zbrush here it is: It is very hard, 8,000,000 16,000,000,000 points and polygons. 3d max UZHAAAASSTNO brakes if I ship it. Even with maimi 22gb operatives. I want to make a normal map and apply it to the low field. But in 3d max with such lags impossible zapikali (Can you tell me what some other program where you can properly bake a normal map. Or something else.


15 Jul, 2012 Usco
8 Jul, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Eugene R, hello. Normal map makes himself Zbrush. Here are some examples (video): and so

R3 Zbrush3.5: the Normal the Map Extraction from peteando on Vimeo .



25 Jul, 2013 Yevgeniy R
25 Jul, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Did the scan in zbrash, here it is: On it sldelal, (as it should be) a normal map here it is: He threw loureznuyu model scanning in 3d max, put the modifier sweeps, here: Initially tested on normal map difuze and that's what it turns out (((: ears on the arm and on the body, on the face of all that is not clear. So when I put in the Normal bump, the result totzhe. I understand that the normal fell ill, I suppose that the problem with the scan. But what exactly is wrong? After all, I did everything right. Making a scan in 3d max, is not an option, I'll do it 2 weeks, so as to low carved palegonov model enough. Help please (already hands fall (That only did not try. Maybe you recommend any other convenient way? (Because I'm going crazy), no one can explain to me what was going on ...


12 Dec, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
28 Jul, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Hello! To be honest I do not use Brasov and specific details of his work do not know, but as I understand it, do not you "did" sweep and brush machine there is something Generate. Right? Hence the problem. With regard to the fact of your question, if I am not mistaken, the generated coordinates in Zbrush mepinga not perceived 3ds Max. Do not stand at the side of the initial angle of the texture take something like that. They are either horizontally, vertically or omitted flipnutye, and judging by your Scrin flipnutye vertically. Ammunition let down this texture in Photoshop and in the right direction to reflect it. Either do it in the settings of the texture of the material. That's all.


18 Aug, 2013 Evgeniy R
18 Aug, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Thank you very much for the answer! 👍 Steep spit, the same effect. Probably full of lag. Anyway. 🙄 I've got a new problem with a different geometry. Did geometry made it a low field, scan, normal. Everything seems to be good but there was a problem. sweep seams appeared: I have been looking for such a problem in the internet and found the option to put the scale of 1.0. It really helped: But this is not correct. I need the 2.2 din. What is the problem? may in the normal? I apologize in advance if you do not write in the subject position, as did not really understand what the problem is, in the normal, in the din, or scan.


12 Dec, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
18 Aug, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
normal map is always rendered without gamma correction, as it is universal and does not adjust to the range of your current scene, that is, it is always rendered with gamma = 1.0. To normal map displayed correctly in your scene, it is not necessary to change the gamma value for the entire scene. More precisely, this should not be done accurately😁 Suffice texture settings (normal maps), to specify the texture opened with Gamma 1.0 and all. To do this, you enter the desired texture, you click on the button «Bitmap + full file name", and opens a window «Select Bitmap Image File». There's a section Gamma choose Override 1.0. All.


18 Aug, 2013 Evgeniy R
19 Aug, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
In, thank you very much!) What you need! 👍


19 Aug, 2013 Konstantin
19 Aug, 2013 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Returning to karapuzu.Razvёrtku can be done in open makse.V Brachet karapuza.V scroll geometry lowers subdivov to minimuma.Poluchivshuyusya lovpoli export Obj how to max or where there privychno.Delaem progressive. (It will be correct if the seam on the back pass.) And as the export Obj.Vozvraschaemsya in brash.Proveryaem karapuza.Uroven subdivov must be like during eksporta.Nazhimaem import.I choose what is now done in makse.Vsё toddler with maksovskoy razvёrtkoy.Pravda sometimes kosyaki.No can fix them quickly .Dalshe baked map normaley.Pri which exports have to press the tab texture Flip icon V. All.


9 Sep, 2014 Oleg
9 Sep, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Hello! I did baking normal map for the transfer of a hi-poly models low-poly. As it is done for the game. So I faced with the problem that I can not solve. All geometry baked pretty good, but there are places that are simply baked in a strange way. In general, on Circuits (screenshot attached) I have smoothed corners, but as a result they are smoothed out, and smoothed at the same time, ie, both visible geometry. Moreover, this situation almost any viewing angle. Map I bake in xnormal, because 3ds max could not work with modelkoy 5+ million polygons, which came after zbrush (normal map fragment attached too). When baking to do is detached from the body and set up the cage by hand. Of course, trial and error, sooner or later, you can get rid of this shoal, but I feel that I simply have not understood the theory for normal bump. Tell me, what can be the reason for this jamb? Pokapatsya is near normal and smoothing usually there all evil lies🙂🙂


9 Sep, 2014 Oleg
11 Sep, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
With these details, I have not yet mastered😁 But there is a new question. In the settings Render to texture is such a graph as Padding. Climb on forums and such like, I realized that this is what, but at every forum of different recommendations about the value it was exhibited in the video lessons on baking too, all in different ways, from 2 to 16, approximately. So after all, how to determine what kind of padding to expose? What does it depend? : |


6 Oct, 2014 Alex
6 Oct, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Oleg, do not consider to be rude or humiliation, but the high poly model could 5+ million Polycom to do!?! It's just tough! Anyway, to the heart of the matter: on the low poly model just a little grounds at the bottom of the details, it will not ever round😁 add Polycom-faces, if the item is round at least 8 and preferably 12 faces, but not 6. And about Padding is dependent on the distance between the parts in the unfolding, mostly convenient to make a mask, without touching the edges YuVishek, and in some cases, when you create an animation of the skin to hide the seams .... well somewhere so


9 Sep, 2014 Oleg
6 Oct, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
The model itself is about 14k polygons, became so severe after work in zbrush with it, increases the density of the entire share sewed meshes, all in order to make the welds. Now if only did not do🙂 And already prompted as to facilitate the model without losing quality plugin 🙂 With Circuits also figured out, I made 16 corners, instead of 6, and now the rules, but thanks for the tip! On the scan I did padding 4px, understand that in the settings should be placed at 4 baking?


6 Oct, 2014 Alex
6 Oct, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Padding should be put depending on the resolution of the texture, I for example in the 8K texture put it between 4 and 8, in the 1-2K texture can be placed 2-3 will be enough for 32K - from 16 to 32. For a better understanding, it is all this - it is like edging around YuVishek parts, and this value - its thickness.


9 Sep, 2014 Oleg
7 Oct, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
I understand how padding looks yuvishke, and seem to understand what it is designed to eliminate the artifacts, it was not clear just how to choose values. That is specifically calculated so as to say exactly what you need to do here 4 and 3 here, this is not? Depending on the texture, well, let's say you're right. But I'm here, for example, I made in the texture of the padding 4 2k, not 2-3. This school? If yes, then what is it can be shown?


6 Oct, 2014 Alex
7 Oct, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
there is no school, a certain formula as such do not have to calculate how to speak pure "by eye"😉 It still depends (except resolution textures) on the density YuVishek location, they are very tight for space, there does not work do more padding , there will be draining and will simply not comfortable texture (especially Photoshop), here on the basis of such considerations must be selected if that does not prevent the maximum possible though to put this texture as such does not spoil


9 Sep, 2014 Oleg
7 Oct, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Thank you, starts to become clear. Now, if I was doing on YuVishke padding 4XP, I think, more than 4 padding is better not to, right?


6 Oct, 2014 Alex
8 Oct, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
here is more suitable word is "better not to," and "you can not put."


9 Sep, 2014 Oleg
9 Oct, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Well thank you. In general, it became clear that at least doing the right thing 👍


5 Nov, 2014 Aleh
5 Nov, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Hello! Faced with such a problem: when I open in Photoshop the normal map, and then after the change, save, the image becomes darker and, as a result, on the model appearing at the seams visible transitions sweep. I understand that change the gamma of the incoming image. Of course, this can be corrected manually, as in Max and in the Photoshop, but would like to somehow make everything ok🙂 Can anyone tell me where in Photoshop to change the settings so that it did not change the range of incoming images? 🙂


5 Nov, 2014 Ilya_sp
5 Nov, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
If this is a photoshop rather than max, then look in the menu editing, setting colors (edit-color settings) such as color management strategy and the color space used. Those. If the workspace is some appleRGB and forced conversion of all open files in the workspace.


5 Nov, 2014 Aleh
5 Nov, 2014 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Still, the problem was in max🙂 before baking it was necessary to disconnect the gamma / LUT correction. It baffled that the school appeared only after connecting all the cards in one in photoshop 🙄


26 Jan, 2016 Ilshat
26 Jan, 2016 # Re: Normal maps in 3Ds MAX theory and practice
Hi all I have here a question ripe think probably stupid but the currents will ask whether it is possible to make such a kata the normal lighting as I have on the original capitals


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