Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques

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20 Sep, 2011 Yelena
20 Sep, 2011 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Hello! teach me how to put the right frame in very close quarters the standard camera (bathroom 150cm to 140cm)? I am neither trying all kind of nonsense is obtained. Maybe there is some kind of a special reception for such cases?


20 Sep, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
20 Sep, 2011 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Hi! How to choose the angle when taking a bath or toilet? - It is a topical issue, and of course he has a number of solutions🙂

I believe 360i version with degree camera you know. If not, see our lesson about the creation of interactive 360 ​​panoramas in 3ds Max 😉

If we are talking about the best angle camera, then it all depends on zadachi.Naprimer, some of our client purposefully bought a top view in the court room, as it is in the corner of the room, on the ceiling. Like a security camera videonablyudeniya.Ya think you can guess how it will look this render 'toilet - view from the top ":. DNo, as they say," tastes differ "and" master-master "🙂 However, in my opinion, the best solution for shooting premises with limited space, is to use clipping planes (clipping planes) .Camera clipping planes - are special shut-off plane geometry in a certain area in front of the camera. There are further cut off (Far Clip) and near (Near Clip). That is, you can cut any geometry in the scene, which prevents this camera angles in its obzora.Sama zone geometry clipped just will not, but it just will not be visible from this angle. That is, it is not rendered from this camera, freeing up space in front of the apparent ney.Chto does it mean? This means that we can just take off the camera against the wall space and quietly removed the room itself, simply clipping cutting the interfering wall behind which we vyleteli.Vyglyadit so:  Here, look at the camera location . It is located directly behind the wall, not only in front of her except the wall is a massive pedestal wash basin. However, the wall and the cabinet is completely cut off clipping, which made them invisible to Roeder. Try once more to put the camera, then set up her Clipping Planes and you immediately understand how it delaetsya.Ne forget the viewing angle. Large FOV really helps to capture more space stseny.Tak also, often, the entrance of the situation, there are no horizontal and vertical position of the camera or the aspect ratio of the rendering. For example, as shown in an example where the image height is greater than its width. It is very appropriate at this shooting small spaces😉


28 Oct, 2011 Ilya
28 Oct, 2011 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Hello! Created models, which is 120 cm in height. He placed in the room and render. Then added target camera, at the height of human eyes -. About 170 cm Just intuitively thought that it is necessary to submit the project to the height of the human eye. At the same time, the cabinet now looks unrealistic. It can view failed or lens selected. Here is the result: Based on your experience, how do you approach the problem of accommodation Target camera? Here are my settings of the camera: I would appreciate any advice or amendment. Thank you!


28 Oct, 2011 Maks (Staff Author)
28 Oct, 2011 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Hi Ilya! By selecting angle shooting single object must be approached intuitively, without numbers. If you have no problem to show this place literally in the interior and be sure to show how it will look from the height of human growth, it is not worth it, and to take into account. If you it is important to show the interior view, it is important to keep the height of the chamber at the level of 1600 mm from the floor. Whatever it was, you selected too wide angle lens. Zoom FOV option and accordingly otodvin camera back😉


10 Nov, 2011 LexxD
10 Nov, 2011 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Thank you very much for your detailed answers!) Especially about Camera Clipping Planes !!! It has long been looking for how this can be done !!! Only RenderStuff as always and helps !!! 👍 Once again, thank you🙂🙂🙂


17 Jan, 2013 Anastasiya
17 Jan, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Hello, Clipping Planes certainly a great thing, but I still climbs one point, the camera captures the entire corner, but the ceiling and the floor is extremely small! It is not know what to try ... if you twist the lens or the field of view, the quality changes only the prospect, and even then, not for the better .. Show you how to deal with it?


20 Sep, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
21 Jan, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Try to apply the modifier to the camera Camera Correction and adjust the tilt planes of sight. Maybe so you can grab your desired zone😉


17 Jan, 2013 Anastasiya
29 Jan, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Anton! this modifier - a thing !!! 👍 Thank you very much😁


30 Apr, 2013 Tima
30 Apr, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
I looked through the site is very informative! Thank Renderstafu! Only now I was once again faced with the problem of the visualization of closed spaces, ie, Such as Baths, Bathrooms, Basements. If possible could you explain the rules of artificial consecration. Thank you in advance!!!


12 Jul, 2013 gus_ann
12 Jul, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Hello, very small room, Fov greatly distorts the picture. We need a top view. Ispaolzuyu clipping, the problem is that now there is such a moment. Those. tune clipping to cut off the ceiling, and the arch (gibsokartonovaya structure) adjacent to the ceiling and cut off, too, showing the blackness. Show you how to avoid such moments?


13 Jul, 2013 Usco (3d modeling expert)
13 Jul, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
And if you just eliminate the ceiling of the camera option "invisible in camera"


12 Jul, 2013 gus_ann
13 Jul, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Yes still cut off, or hide an object or a little decrease by vysote- what I came up with. All I hope for an elegant solution that I do not know, but apparently it is not


20 Sep, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
14 Jul, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
gus_ann, hello! Clipping Planes is just a plane, which cut off all the geometry before or behind him. If the arch on their way, that nothing can be done. Alternatively, you can rendernut with and without clipping and skompouzit problem zones manually. With regard to the decision without changes, the toy itself often suffer, trying to make the desired angle and trim is nothing in it clipping. You surely noticed about the FOV. You can physically "go" camera and Clipping Planes from the subject, and the FOV "drive" to it, thereby eliminating the cutting geometry of the frame. But the prospects of distortion are often not acceptable. Therefore, it is the case when there is no elegant solution means 3ds Max. At least it is not known to me.


12 Jul, 2013 gus_ann
14 Jul, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Thank you, Anton😉


12 Jul, 2013 gus_ann
27 Aug, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Usco, I finally realized that you recommend me😁, thanks, it worked. 😁😁😁


29 Dec, 2013 justcrazy
29 Dec, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Guys, tell me, is it possible to turn cliping plane, that it is not parallel to the plane of the camera?


20 Sep, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
30 Dec, 2013 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Hello! Whether it is from the plane of the camera, scroll clipping Plain is impossible, but you can bend the camera with clipping plane. To do this, use the Camera Correction the Modifier 😉


17 Apr, 2014 Liza
17 Apr, 2014 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Good afternoon! Help! Render the bathroom, a lot of barriers, which prevent cell. I remove them cliping plane, but when rendering these walls not cleaned ... What to do?


17 Apr, 2014 Svetlana
17 Apr, 2014 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Hello. I've done only interior rooms with windows, and problems with the lighting was not until recently. No flashes on, no noise. But then came the day - and I have to do first small toilet and the bathroom. Tell me, please, what are the principles of lighting placement in tight spaces without natural light? I tried to put the ceiling Ies - did not see anything (probably weak capacity was). Then set a 6 VRayLight Plane 50 to 50 mm 30 Default units. + It was dark glare on the tile, bath and stiralka. B, eventually, Plano I put options 100 to 100 mm and 120 Default units. And added 2 VRayLight Sphere r = 50 mm and a capacity of 30 units of credit default. Result - complete garbage. What am I doing wrong. What and where it is necessary to add another? What are the sources of light, in general, it is better to put in the bathroom and the bathroom, well, I mean, in confined spaces? Thank you in advance.


12 Jul, 2013 gus_ann
21 Apr, 2014 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Hello Svetlana. I use in such cases Vray IES. In your case it did not work because you need to wind the power of this source. I usually point out also the configuration of the spread of the light, a special IES file. You can also use VraySphere, it is to your taste. Power Vray IES can be any of 100 to 30,000 or more. Just do IES light first, and then you copy his method as necessary INSTANCE lights o you in the scene, and every one stood out reguliruesh his power glow Decrease / increase until is sufficiently light in your scene. When copying method INSTANCE all lajty will obey your adjusted Light's one and you'll get the same effect glow all points. Something like this.


13 Jun, 2015 Sam
13 Jun, 2015 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques

Hello!

I'm completely new to 3ds max. And I understand all the problems in stages. Thanks to the site, thanks to him figured out the basic optimal settings in general.

Now there is a problem with the camera. Any. Whether it's PhysicalCamera or the usual standard.

And the problem, in fact, is the following:
I saw an outsider working with a standard camera. With the value of Lens 15 mm, it is possible to cover almost the entire room, about 5x4 m in size. But unfortunately, everything is not right for me. With the value of Lens 15 mm, I can fit only one wall of the room, sometimes it can be half the other, but definitely less is placed in the camera than the guy whose work I had to watch. FOR VERY MUCH. What's frustrating. Because if you reduce the Lens value beyond 15 mm, for example 11, 9, then the objects are highly distorted, and these distortions are not corrected by any settings (I read about vertical and horizontal corrections of distortions in camera settings and about Camera Correction - none of this Helps).

What am I doing wrong?

How to ensure that all necessary items are placed without distortion? Or is it impossible? (Take the camera out of the room and cut off the walls, too, not an option - an inadequate render is obtained). In general, help me find a way out of this situation.

Look, that at me leaves:


It can be seen that there is no ceiling for this image, for example, or there is a TV on the left, it can not be accommodated either. And this picture turned out with Lens = 15, that is further objects will already be distorted, even here a slight distortion is noticeable.

Here is the scene and the camera settings:




Thank you in advance!



4 Sep, 2016 Agate
4 Sep, 2016 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Good afternoon! Please help me with this renderer room as a bathroom. The room is not completely closed, there are two small windows, the light from which is very much reflected in the walls, on which marble texture. Plus all the noise .. very long time to deal with lighting, by searching, trial and error, and stopped at ieskah virey + light sphere lighting from the window. But again, glare and noise .. twirling subdiv sources and materials, hoping to get rid of that noise rendr is more than 5, 6 hours, which is very long and will not do for such a small room. With settings also tasted different, but very ask you to assess their quality, for the room. Can I do something fundamentally wrong doing .. is attached screenshots and rendr: Settings virey Light's scope: Iesok Settings: Render Settings: I would be grateful for any help! Thank you!


20 Sep, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
4 Sep, 2016 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques

Hello!

The main difficulty in setting up lighting in the bathroom is not so much that the lighting is artificial and not that the room is small, but because in the vast majority of cases, such premises are decorated with ceramics. Tiles on the floor, marble on the walls, ceramic sanitary ware, etc., in turn, this unambiguously means that the materials have a strong reflectivity. Count, the whole room is decorated with mirrors.

The ideal mirror is a surface that does not accept light at all, but only reflects it. So we can not see the real color of the mirror, for it is reflections. Such a mirror can not be illuminated, it is impossible to make its surface lighter or darker, it is possible only to repel rays from it that are emitted from it by a light source. In turn, not an ideal mirror, which is absolutely all surfaces, only partially reflects the light rays, part of them absorbs (is transformed into the body of the surface itself), part refracts (passes through itself outside) and only a part reflects. That is, it reflects "what's left", and it reflects it with a big blur. The latter means that the angle of reflection of the ray from the surface is not equal to the angle of its fall on it, and the reflected rays are reflected in different directions chaotically. This is what we perceive as a matte or non-reflecting surface. However, in reality, there are no reflecting surfaces, because the color is the rays reflected from the surface, just not directly "into the eye", but in different directions chaotically, and for the color we perceive precisely those rays that are reflected. For example, if the surface color for us looks green, then all other rays of the visible spectrum (white), that is, violet, blue, blue, yellow, orange, red - are absorbed by the green surface.

It is this model that simulates the render engine. That is, if you shine on the surface of a light source, and the material of the surface is "green", then the energy received from the light source is proportionally absorbed. In turn, this "green" material emits to the neighboring surfaces proportionally less energy than received from the light source. The emission of light reflected from the surface, that is, the secondary (primary from the IC) rays corresponds to the GI algorithm.

When we talk about the "Reflection" parameter, it interferes even more with the proportion of secondary rays reflected from the surface. The higher the value of "Reflection" and the lower the value of "Glossiness" reflections, the less "energy" GI is reflected from the surface. The ideal reflecting shader (Reflection = white, Glossiness = 1) does not give GI at all.

Then someone will object, but how is it? How does it not reflect the rays from the mirror ?? After all, it's just the opposite, from it there must be a 100% reflection, that is, the return to GI should be maximum! But there is no paradox, simply because the "energy" that Reflection touched upon itself, he does not give to the basic algorithm GI, but to the special algorithm GI caustics. Enabled by ticking the checkbox "Reflective GI caustics". By default it is off and not sparse. It just works terribly, is not controlled separately, it makes a lot of noise. This is the way to the issue of noise in your scene. If this algorithm is enabled, then the noise can be from it. If it is off, the noise may be due to insufficient illumination of the scene, since Reflection in the material "removed" part of the "energy" of the reflected rays and transmitted it to the algorithm that is turned off.

In general, in order to better understand what is happening with the scene "covered" with reflective materials, imagine a fully enclosed room in which both the floor and ceiling, walls and even the front door are glued with mirrors. If you go into such a room, turn on the flashlight, then all you see is a few reflections of the lamp of the flashlight and its slightly lit silhouette. All other areas of the room will be completely black. No half-tones. Just pitch dark. Now imagine that you with the same flashlight will go into the same room, but without mirrors, but with white plaster and a white door. You will illuminate with the same flashlight and you will see not a badly lit room. It is this effect that you get, trying to illuminate the interior where almost most surfaces are highly reflective.

Specifically, you have this striped tile on the walls. It simply "eats" the energy of secondary rays. It is for this reason that all the rope ropes on the render look too dark. Yes, and the floor with a ceiling, also not a light finish, but rather a dark tree, especially on the ceiling. Judging by the screenshots, to compensate for this darkness you are trying to bright light from those two small windows in the wall, which leads to such strong overexposures in the areas of direct rays from them, while in places where only the secondary ones break through - it's a little dark. To avoid this, you should try to illuminate the room without any light from the windows. Turn out the light sources in the ceiling lights on the ceiling to their sufficient brightness. Increase the strength of their glow until it begins to appear overexposures on the surfaces in the interior. This will mean that a further increase in intensity

These glows should be discontinued. Regarding the choice of light sources, that is what to use in plafonds, VrayLight or VRayIES, in this case the spherical VrayLight is preferable, because the purpose of IES is only a beautiful pattern on the wall to which they shine. In your case, you need to simulate omnidirectional halogens in the ceiling lamps that do not shine directly on the walls. I advise, just read how to correctly install lights in the ceiling, it is very important. Then come to the light from the windows, by the way, you also need to be able to install it correctly. The principle is the same, pick up the brightness before the occurrence of overexposures. In reality, daylight is much more intense than artificial light, but it is not always aesthetically pleasing for interior visualization with artificial lighting present. So it's not necessary to comply with this condition and focus on artificial lighting. Also, it is not at all necessary to use a source of direct light from a window simulating the sun. Simply enough for a rectangular VRayLight in front of these windows to insert and subtly illuminate the outside of the room barely blue GI Environment, so that the window opening is not dark. As for the colors of the IC, then the lights in the shades make it slightly yellowish, even slightly orange, and from the window openings the light is slightly bluish Color. Only with the saturation of these colors do not go too far. As for the darkness in the corners, due to the lack of brightness of GI, there are several ways to deal with it. The easiest, which I would advise, is to render it in a HDR format, and then lighten the picture, including zonal, in a 2d editor. For example, in Photoshop. This method of controlling light is the easiest. If you do not need 20 camera angles, then choose it. If there are many camera angles, you do not use postprocessing, or you essentially want to get the picture you need with the help of renderer tools, then you can use several "cheats". In particular, you can increase the power of GI by tweaking the value of "Multiplier" in the "Global illumination" rollout for the "Primary engine" and "Secondary engine". This can also be done locally for walls with highly reflective tiles. For example, using the VRayOverrideMtl ​​material in the "Base material" slot of which the current material of the striped tile is inserted, and in "GI" the same material, but with the "Reflection" parameter several times already reduced. It is also worth trying to include the previously mentioned "Reflective GI caustics", if it is not already included. By the way, GI, generated from reflective surfaces, can make noise, including because of the workings of Light Cache. In new versions of V-Ray, LC has a parameter "Retrace", it is just designed, including, to eliminate this noise. As for the remaining details, there are not many of them. The material of the planks on the ceiling and the laminate floor. In both cases, a terrible texture is used. On the ceiling, all dostochki are ideally the same, with a solid texture, "one at all." It does not happen. All boards are always different, have different though alike, but still different patterns. It is this not idealism that is inherent in the real world. At you all dostochki "as one". It is immediately evident that 3d. Even plastic panels, imitating the structure of wood with colored lamination, specially have in the set of the bar with a slightly different pattern. Do on slightly different structures on different boards, then they will look much more realistic. In addition, the impression is that their material is absolutely matte, so too, should not be because if it is plastic, then it has strongly blurred reflections, but still has, if a tree, it is uniquely protected from dampness by varnish, which even "matte" All the same reflects. Correct it. A similar remark to the material of the laminate or tiles "under the laminate" on the floor. The texture is very frankly repeated. In fact, there are only two patterns. The tile is brighter and the tile is darker. This is clearly read visually. The number of different patterns on different tiles was increased several times, so that their repeatability would not be so striking in their eyes. Still, tridheshnost, a boxmided barrel under the ceiling, betrays a lot. The real barrel does not have the same planks at all, it concerns both the barrel itself and its holder, which is generally not stuck along the length of the slats, but across. In an amicable way, 3d models of such a wooden product as an unpainted barrel - require a sweep. Every wand, every plate. Its mapping, its texture. Only then they will look realistic and not spoil the picture, as now the pendant kadushka does for you on visualization. Having experimented a little, you will achieve an acceptable or excellent result in the illumination and realism of the details of the desired room😉 In conclusion, I want to say that the value at 6 o'clock The renderer does not say anything, without information about what kind of computer you have. In addition, the size of the room in mm., Has nothing to do with the complexity of rendering the materials themselves. Whether it's a small room or a big holl of 100 squares, the renderer "anyway", only the complexity of the materials plays a role, faithfulness to the light

And saturation of the scene with geometry. You have a large part of the rendered scene - purely reflections and re-reflections, of course they are rendered longer than matted plaster.



4 Sep, 2016 Agate
9 Sep, 2016 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques
Anton, my many thanks to you! Sometimes it's laziness, but you have to deal with the intricacies of modeling .. took into account your recommendations, lessons learned. Thank you! The floor and ceiling created using FloorGenerator script Multiteksturu applied and the material with little reflection. It really looks more natural! Corrected drain "barrel". Light also corrected the for your advice, but of course for the final render requires more post-processing in Photoshop) The noise was, well, the glare on the wall is inevitable, dictated material. How in your opinion?


20 Sep, 2011 Anton (Staff Author)
9 Sep, 2016 # Re: Rendering from small room: angle, lighting, techniques

Hi,

The result, technically, became slightly more mature, but the artistic part is still limping. In particular, I suggest that you do 1.5-2 times the glow from the window, at the same time, the lights on the ceiling leave the same intensity that is now, BUT, twice, or even three times, reduce the saturation of the color of the glow. They should shine a slightly yellowish, almost white light. Now they give the whole interior a terrible yellowness. White stripes on the tile really look yellow, and they should be white. In general, the lighting should be like this:



The only thing I can not do is glow from the window with fasting, but you can easily (see recommendations above). As for the terrible over-exposure, which is still there, if you have in the plafonds on the ceiling are invisible spherical VRayLight, then remove their settings check "Affect reflections". This will generally reduce the glare from them, but it should also help to eliminate terrible backlighting. Also, the barrel is still awful. And the texture itself, and the material itself, and the direction of the texture should be ALONG the slats, not the other way around. Under the door, he held a lane so that it would not "bite" visually into the floor, but in general it was a gross mistake, there is distance from the floor under any door leaf. And your door just drowned in the floor tiles. Also, I rudely pofotoshopil you a photo of the barrel, but generally I advise you to "sweat" with it. We have a wonderful free 3d model of a barrel for a bath on the site. You can literally take it, scale it, and here's a ready-made keg. It will only use its own finished material and wall mount the wall. In general, you will understand😉



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